Ep. 6: Black Youth and the Youth Mental Health Crisis 

Podcast Host: Tammi Mac

Guest: Dr. DaNiesha Colvin and Dr. Claudia Shields

Tammi Mac – The 3 time NAACP award winning, Tammi Mac was hand-picked by the legendary Stevie Wonder to host the number one afternoon radio show, “The Tammi Mac Show” from 3-7pm daily on his Los Angeles owned 102.3 KJLH. Tammi Mac is voted best radio personality in Los Angeles by the Los Angeles Times. Her one woman show, Bag Lady has garnered best writer, best producer and best one person show and the spin-off webseries Bag Lady is award winning too. Her radio career has extended to television with her talk show, The Business of Being Black with Tammi Mac on the digital network Fox Soul, daily.

DaNiesha Colvin, Psy.D. – Dr. Colvin earned her Doctorate in Applied Clinical Psychology (Psy.D.) at The Chicago School. In addition, Dr. Colvin has a Master’s degree in Applied Behavior Analysis and a Master’s degree in Business Administration from National University. Dr. Colvin is currently a Clinical Director, offering children and adults with intellectual and developmental disabilities a comprehensive range of services. Dr. Colvin uses a biopsychosocial and strength-based approach. In addition, she is grounded in positive psychology, crisis intervention, and behavioral support services. Furthermore, Dr. Colvin is completing her theology degree and working with the AME Church to assist with organizing the Children’s Ministry and providing psychological services as needed. 

Claudia Shields, Psy.D. – Dr. Claudia Owens Shields is a licensed clinical psychologist, specializing in Multicultural Community Psychology. She is an associate professor and the former Chair of the Clinical Psy.D. Department at The Chicago School, where she teaches multicultural competence to students seeking doctorates in psychology.  She has worked extensively with the Azusa Unified School District and the Azusa Police Department on hate crime prevention and suicide prevention through community and school-based interventions. She also developed a program designed to reduce suicide among members of LGBTQ populations by addressing homophobia and heterosexism. 

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FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Tammi Mac: 

Hello and welcome to our podcast, You Are Not Alone, your guide to mental wellness, presented by Radio Free 102.3 KJLH. I’m Tammi Mac. 

So this podcast is a production of The Chicago School, which has been training and educating multi-culturally competent mental healthcare professionals for nearly 50 years. These are the professionals you want to talk to, okay? Our program is committed to educating our community about mental health and wellness, and normalizing conversations about our mental health. Our program will explore mental health and wellness issues that impact us, as well as explore ways we can improve our wellness. Every week, I will be joined by mental and behavioral health experts who will share their experience and expertise to help us on our journey to good health and satisfying lives. 

There is no doubt our children and adolescents need our help. This is probably one of my favorite podcasts to date because we are about to reach out and touch our children today. 

They are experiencing increasing rates of depression and anxiety. But the most troubling statistic is the dramatic increase in the suicide rate of our young people. According to the Centers for Disease Control since 2018, are you ready for this? The suicide rate among young black people between the ages of 10 years old and 24 has increased by 36%. Staggering numbers. Staggering. 

I’m joined today with clinical psychologist Dr. Claudia Shields, who is a professor at The Chicago School. Dr. Shields specializes in multicultural community clinical psychology. She launched the Ally Program at the Student Health Center at Mount San Antonio, excuse me, at Mount San Antonio College dedicated to suicide prevention for LGBTQIA+ students, faculty, and staff. Dr. Shields has also worked extensively for hate crime, oh my goodness, hate crime prevention, suicide prevention, and diversity and leadership programs for the City of Azusa, the Azusa Police Department, and the Azusa Unified School District. She has taught at the graduate level for nearly 30 years and has served as a department chair as well as Director of Clinical Training. She’s also received honors from the mayor of Los Angeles, the governor of California, and was also named Woman of Achievement by the Century City Chamber of Commerce. Welcome, Dr. Shields. 

Dr. Claudia Shields: 

Thank you for having me. 

Tammi Mac: 

I’m also joined today by Dr. DaNiesha Colvin, a native of LA who earned her doctorate in applied clinical psychology at The Chicago School. In addition, Dr. Colvin has a master’s degree in Applied Behavior Analysis and a master’s degree in Business Administration from National University. Dr. Colvin is currently a clinical director working with children and adults with intellectual and developmental disabilities. Dr. Colvin is grounded in positive psychological or rather positive psychology, crisis intervention, and behavioral support services. Furthermore, Dr. Colvin is completing her theology degree and working with the AME church to assist with organizing the children’s ministry and providing psychological services as needed. Please welcome Dr. Colvin. 

Dr. DaNiesha Colvin: 

Thank you for having me. 

Tammi Mac: 

Before we get started started, it’s my understanding that the Centers for Disease Control statistics have increased. I said 36% at the top of the show, but the numbers are even worse, Dr. Shields? 

Dr. Claudia Shields: 

So the Congressional Black Caucus did a study and they found a 73% increase in suicides among African American youth. 

Tammi Mack: 

So 73% increase as opposed to 36%. 

Dr. Claudia Shields: 

So I think the number you were saying, was that 36% of the people total, or was that an increase? 

Tammi Mac: 

Increase. 

Dr. Claudia Shields: 

Okay. So yes, the increase has been far greater. In fact, our people have the highest increase of any group in suicide. 

Tammi Mac: 

And when you say our people, you’re referring to- 

Dr. Claudia Shields: 

I mean African American. People of African heritage. 

Tammi Mack: 

Well, that goes against all of these rumors that we’ve heard where black people don’t commit suicide, Dr. Shields. So how is this so? 

Dr. Claudia Shields: 

Well, there are a number of factors that contribute to suicide, and when I name them, you’ll go, “Oh, that makes sense.” Okay? So one of the things we know is depression. Another one we know is discrimination. One of the things you saw is a peak in those numbers right around the time when we had a lot of high profile death. So Trayvon Martin, I could name all those- 

Tammi Mac: 

We can name names to the day we die, right? 

Dr. Claudia Shields: 

Yeah. Hopelessness and worthlessness. Those are predictors of suicide. Those are things that have impacted our community. And so when you think of it that way, it makes sense. Here’s the other thing, suicide doesn’t get reported. In many circles, there are more suicides every day than homicide, usually related to gun violence. 

Tammi Mac: 

What do you mean suicide doesn’t get reported? 

Dr. Claudia Shields: 

It’s under reported. It doesn’t make the news. 

Tammi Mac: 

Wow. 

Dr. Claudia Shields: 

So across the spectrum, mental health providers understand that suicide is more likely a risk than homicide, but it doesn’t get talked about. It brings shame. People don’t like to think about it. Right? And so it is a silent killer. 

Tammi Mac: 

Dr. Colvin, what do you attribute this increase, this rise to when it comes to our youth? Because I mean, the numbers are that our youth, our black children, let me make this clear so that you’re understanding. Our black children are committing suicide at high rates now, and those rates have increased from 36% to 76%. Why? 

Dr. DaNiesha Colvin: 

It’s a lot of different factors. And Dr. Shields kind of mentioned a lot of them, but I like to think about, it’s a level of acceptance that we need for our youth. They want to feel accepted. We have different things from not just being black, but being a part of the LGBTQ community. The conflict between faith and culture. That’s a whole nother topic. 

Tammi Mac: 

Yes. 

Dr. DaNiesha Colvin: 

And then we also have social media. Going to school, you already have to deal with your peers and bullying and things like that. When you add social media, now we have another level of access where people can bully you cyberly. And that adds to the mental health. We look at foster kids as well, a lot of times that they have these adverse childhood experiences, which mean off the top, you’re guaranteed to have obesity, depression, anxiety, PTSD, a lot of other medical concerns. And so, the list can go on. 

Tammi Mac: 

When we talk about our youth feeling worthless, where do either of you think that comes from? Because what I get from young people that I work with all the time is they don’t want to hear about that slavery stuff. They don’t want to hear about that old stuff. So if they’re not attached to the history of black people in America, how can they feel worthless? They’re not attached to that thing that grandma or great grandma is attached to. And it seems to me, I see you laughing Dr. Shields, but it seems laughing to me that the kids today, our youth today, are more confident. They have more opportunities, they make more money. So where is this worthlessness coming from? 

Dr. Claudia Shields: 

Well, I think that it comes from what we are seeing, what we’re learning in the news. So we just lost, or almost lost this young man, Ralph Yarl. 

Tammi Mak: 

Right. 

Dr. Claudia Shields: 

He is an honor student, taking college classes in high school, in the band, accomplished. He cannot make the mistake of ringing the wrong doorbell without getting shot in the head. When we say Black Lives Matter, we’re told to be quiet. Just saying that our lives matter is often taboo. So the reason I was smiling was to say- 

Tammi Mac: 

No, I understood. 

Dr. Claudia Shields: 

Yeah. It’s not that it’s just history, it has happened today. 

Tammi Mack: 

Yeah, I get it. 

Dr. Claudia Shields: 

We see our kids getting murdered and folks walking. Right? There’s no accountability. That tells us our lives are not valuable. 

Tammi Mac: 

So they’re watching this every day on social media. 

Dr. Claudia Shields: 

Yes. 

Dr. DaNiesha Colvin: 

Yep. 

Tammi Mac: 

Right? And social media, which I say all the time on my radio show, it’s consistent. It repeats itself. So I could hear about Trayvon Martin for the rest of my life, in my scroll it’s coming up. It’s coming up. It’s coming up. I can watch George Floyd die every day. It’s coming up. It’s coming up. It’s coming up. So I can believe that that is a part of why our youth today would feel worthless. 

Dr. Claudia Shields: 

Yes. 

Dr. DaNiesha Colvin: 

It’s discouraging. You see it in your feed all day. And even with the example, he was really good in school, but to come home and then you unpack and just feel like, “I’m not even good enough. No matter how great I am, it’s still not good enough.” 

Tammi Mac: 

Oh, wow. So, are there any specific groups that are more vulnerable than others, groups we should pay close attention to outside of our own? 

Dr. DaNiesha Colvin: 

Oh, go ahead. 

Dr. Claudia Shields: 

I was just going to ask you, when you say outside our own… 

Tammi Mac: 

Outside of the black. 

Dr. Claudia Shields: 

I would say LGBTQ+IA. Some of the highest rates of hate crimes are among those groups. And there’s a real way in which our society is still so unconscious about those issues. So unconsciously structured with heteronormativity, homo negativity, transphobia, making laws about how people are supposed to identify in terms of their gender. Who can marry, who can love who. And so what we find is that raises risk for suicide. If you create a community where people feel like they’re free to love how they want to love, be how they want to be, suicide rates go down. You tell people that how you love, how you think, how you dress, all of that’s not okay, suicide rates go up. 

Tammi Mac: 

There’s been a lot of that in our Congress and with our politicians lately of creating bills and laws- 

Dr. Claudia Shields: 

That’s right. 

Tammi Mac: 

… That are telling us what we can and cannot do. It’s crazy. Governor Ron DeSantis has made so many bills right now of what you can and cannot do. I believe there’s a bill on the floor now where you can get the death penalty, if you, you’re looking at me, you don’t know what this is, but you do. You can get the death penalty if you sexually assault a child, which I can’t say I’m not okay with that one. But there are these laws now that are controlling us. We can’t say the word gay. We can’t go into the school, or we have to tell our parents. I want to ask, because you were talking about the LGBTQIA community. The bill that’s current right now, it talks about parents being able to know whether their child is transitioning or not. Should the teachers tell their parents? And I ask that because is this something that is leading our youth to suicide, the fact that they can’t tell their parents if they are a part of that community? 

Dr. Claudia Shields: 

It can. It’s very important that we affirm people for who they are. 

Dr. DaNiesha Colvin: 

Exactly. 

Dr. Claudia Shields: 

Rather than telling them who they are. “Who are you? Okay, baby, I love you. I want to know you.’ 

Tammi Mac: 

So what should the roles be in school? 

Dr. DaNiesha Colvin: 

It goes back to that acceptance. And so, I’m a firm believer of the relational aspect. If I’m coming to school and I’m spending eight hours of my day with you, it should be a level of trust. We should have some type of rapport. I should be able to confide in you. And I get it as far as including parents and letting them know what’s happening on the day to day. But at the same time, parents aren’t going to always receive that information, and the schools don’t either, depending on the teacher and their beliefs. It depends, because I’ve seen it go either way. Either the teacher is more welcoming and I understand, and that’s that one person that student can walk and confide in. And then I’ve seen teachers that’ll push them away and don’t want to have anything to do with it because it doesn’t align with them and their beliefs. 

Tammi Mac: 

So then what should the schools do? 

Dr. DaNiesha Colvin: 

Be open and accepting. And this is coming from a woman of faith. So going back to the conflict between faith and culture. Culture says it’s okay. Faith says it’s not. I believe we should be open. Because if our main goal is to keep everyone alive, healthy, thriving, we shouldn’t be so quick to tell them what they can or cannot do. No one understands the struggles that each person goes through. 

Tammi Mac: 

So what can parents do? 

Dr. DaNiesha Colvin: 

Support. Be open, ask questions. Don’t be so quick to ask, “Why are you behaving this way?” But really listen to what’s happening internally for that child and giving them that free space to communicate what’s happening so they have a better understanding. And then go from there. 

Tammi Mack 

Yeah. I saw something on social media that said the difference between the way white people respond to their children who come out versus black people, how they respond to their children when they come out. And white parents typically go, “Oh, okay, we’ll try to understand that. We’ll support you all the way.” And then black parents say, “Yeah, she call herself liking a little girl.” 

Dr. DaNiesha Colvin: 

It’s a phase. 

Tammi Mac: 

Right. So is there something, really, is there somewhere parents can go to learn to try to understand? Or how do we get them to understand? Because in the black community, it is taboo for us. So how do you make someone who doesn’t want to hear it, hear it? 

Dr. Claudia Shields: 

So, I think some of it does go to certain segments of faith communities. Not every faith community. But I do think that for many of us, it’s tied to religion. And I’ll share this piece. One of the things that helped me in my own journey to becoming an affirming person was I started thinking about how we talk about the Bible, the Holy Bible, as God’s word. So I get out a concordance and I look at what’s the number one word mentioned in what we refer to as God’s word. It was love. I didn’t find homosexuality in their period in all its forms. So what was God talking about? Are Christians talking about what God is talking about? God is saying love, period. And if you look at 1 Corinthians 13, love is open and unconditional. And so I start there. And if you get that part right, I think all the other stuff’s going to fall in place. 

Tammi Mack: 

And when you say love, we’re talking in every sense of the word, because even you mentioned that another reason why kids are committing suicide is because of racism. 

Dr. DaNiesha Colvin: 

Yes. Absolutely. 

Tammi Mac: 

And so love has everything to do with racism, too. Because if you love, then you don’t really see people or characterize people by how they look. 

Dr. Claudia Shields: 

That’s right. 

Tammi Mac: 

So how is it when we talk about racism, what is it that our kids are feeling there? Is it only the deaths of these young kids? Or is it something else that’s there? 

Dr. Claudia Shields: 

I think that’s a good point. I think they are feeling unloved and unlovable. 

Dr. DaNiesha Colvin: 

Exactly. Yeah. Unworthy. Not enough. I mean, the list can go on. 

Tammi Mak: 

So, what can you tell our young people that can help them cope? 

Dr. DaNiesha Colvin: 

That’s a good question. That’s a good question. And one of the things, so, for me, is… Because you hear like, “Oh, everything’s okay, and you’re fine.” But it’s actually okay to not be okay. And I feel like we put so much pressure on our youth that they have to be perfect. They have to follow the social norms. They have to be this person that they don’t always fit that criteria for. And so it’s okay to be different. I say dare to be different. Be you. We’re all uniquely created. We’re all individuals. And when you try to fit the mold, you’ll always constantly find yourself trying to figure out why you don’t necessarily fit. 

So, for any of the youth that’s listening, be you. But also you have to have that level of resilience. And that’ll come with time. You got to have that thick skin if you’re in the LGBTQ community. Even in faith, you have to set your mind on something and know what it is that you want. Believe in yourself, because we could believe in you. But if you don’t- 

Tammi Mack: 

Doesn’t that come with time, though? 

Dr. DaNiesha Colvin: 

Yes. 

Tammi Mac: 

No 12 year old is going to know who they are, what they are, or do they? I don’t know. 

Dr. DaNiesha Colvin: 

I mean, it depends on the person, but I feel like it’s definitely, they need that space to grow and explore. 

Tammi Mac: 

You grow into yourself. You grow into yourself, right? Dr. Shields? 

Dr. Claudia Shields: 

Well, I think it’s one thing to know who you are and another thing to know your value. And so when we are open and inclusive, we go, “Baby, whoever you are, whoever you turn out to, I’ma love you, period. Who you are today is going to be different than who you are 10, 15, 20 years from now. I’m going to love you.” And that gives a person freedom to explore and find out. 

One of the things I think we often do is we give these tiny little boxes they have to fit in. You get to think this way, be this way, dress this way, eat this way. And if you do anything outside that box, you could die. Literally, if you’re black in America. 

Tammi Mac: 

So are there any programs that you believe can be effective for our youth today, Dr. Colvin? 

Dr. DaNiesha Colvin: 

I feel like we spend too much time in front of screens. When I grew up, we were outside playing tag. 

Tammi Mac: 

Well, they would call you like a dinosaur, though, Dr. Colvin. Ain’t no 14 year old trying to hear about you walking in the snow barefoot 45 miles to go to school. 

Dr. DaNiesha Colvin: 

We got to get active. We definitely need to get active. We have these social media and these websites that glorify depression and suicidal ideation and just suicide altogether. If we could learn how to curve that and get into community, get into welcoming environments, getting into academic, sports, anything outside of social media, I think that’s a start. 

Tammi Mac: 

So any programs that you believe are more effective? 

Dr. Claudia Shields: 

Talking to kids. Whenever I show up and talk to a group of kids, if I go to bring your parents to work day, and I talk about being a psychologist, I always get my little pitch in there about suicide. And every single time at least one kid comes up and says, “I’m thinking about it right now.” We have literally gone from an auditorium to the hospital with kids that were suicidal. 

I tell kids, “Look to your right. Look to your left. Probably, you’re surrounded by people who are thinking about ending their life right now. If somebody makes a joke about it, stop. Say, ‘Well, are you serious? We need to get you some help.’ Always take it seriously. Most people who in their lives tell somebody first, and then the person’s like, ‘Oh, I didn’t take them seriously. I thought they were just…'” Right? 

So educating people in churches, in schools, in the grocery store, wherever. Most people want the pain to stop, not their life to stop. So if we can get them to realize that the pain can stop, then their life can go on. 

Tammi Mac: 

Yeah. You are not alone. Really, you aren’t. 

Thank you for joining us today. I want to thank my guests, Dr. Claudia Shields and Dr. DaNiesha Colvin for being on our program. And for more information about the youth mental health crisis, including ways to support your own children or yourself, please visit our websites below, and those links below as well. We’ll have some resources as well as more information about our guests. All you got to do is click right there. 

We hope you will come back and join us on our next program. And remember, we wish you well on your journey to good health and satisfying lives. I’m Tammi Mac. 

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