In this episode of “Ed Tech Hour,” Nadia Iftekhar, a doctoral student at The Chicago School, interviews Shena Sanchez, Ph.D., assistant professor at the University of Alabama, about qualitative research and data analysis. The focus of her research is how to apply intersectional feminism student identity and how to make schools caring and loving spaces.
Dr. Sanchez’s methodology was to interview 35 girls of color from Title I schools in California, Tennessee, and New York on a range of topics, including punishment and access to high-level courses. These conversations took the form of focus-group style interviews that she calls “Sister Circle kitchen table talks.”
Much of Dr. Sanchez’s work centers on the experiences and perspectives of her interviewees, but she says the interviews alone aren’t enough. Researchers must also contextualize their data for those who are utilizing the research.
Interview Transcript:
Dr. Kelly Torres 00:01
This episode of Ed Tech Hour is brought to you by the Educational Psychology and Technology Program at The Chicago School. The Chicago School’s mission is focused on integrating the values of education, innovation, service, and community. The Chicago School provides students innovative and practitioner-based learning experiences in which they’re able to positively impact others around the world and address issues faced by underserved populations. Through collaboration with university administration, faculty, and students, the Ed Tech Hour was created in order to pursue our vision of innovation and global outreach. This podcast series includes thought leaders from around the world who discuss relevant issues centered not only on technology but also the impact of technology on humanity. Speakers provide listeners with stories of how they have impacted learners, employees, and communities through their pursuit of understanding how individuals learn and use technology to improve performance. This show provides a global medium to share and promote various issues and developments in learning and how professionals are utilizing technology. By listening to the show, I hope you were able to develop a unique insight into how you can incorporate similar topics and trends into your own professional settings. I look forward to learning more about our topic with you throughout this episode.
Nadia Iftekhar 01:11
Hello, and welcome to Ed Tech Hour. My name is Nadia Iftekhar. I’m a doctoral student at The Chicago School. Today, I’m here with Dr. Shena Sanchez to talk about her experience with and knowledge of qualitative research and data analysis. Hi, Dr. Sanchez. How are you doing today?
Dr. Shena Sanchez 01:32
Hi! I’m great, and I’m really happy to be here with you.
Nadia Iftekhar 01:36
Thank you so much. Could you give us an overview of your background and your research interests?
Dr. Shena Sanchez 01:41
Yes, so just a little bit about me. I always say I’m from a tiny island in the Pacific, and if you know or have heard of it. I’ll give you a dollar. And if you’ve been there, I’ll give you all the money in my savings account. But I’m from a small island called Saipan. It’s part of the Northern Mariana Islands. It’s a territory of the United States, just like Puerto Rico. My father is from Saipan. He’s Chamorro. And my mother is from the Philippines. She’s Filipino. And I grew up in a really big, boisterous island family. I moved to the U.S. when I was 16, going into my sophomore year of high school, and we moved to Alexandria, Virginia, which is right outside of Washington, D.C. And from there—and I attended—I always have to give my high school a shout-out because I attended T.C. Williams High School, which is the home of the Titans, which is from the movie “Remember the Titans.”
Nadia Iftekhar 02:31
Oh! Okay!
Dr. Shena Sanchez 02:32
So yeah, so it was really exciting to come to the U.S. and then have a movie about the school that you’re attending—that was really very special, and made me feel really cool. And then, I got my undergrad from a small liberal arts school called Roanoke College in Salem, Virginia, in the Blue Ridge Mountains. From there, I worked at Duke University for a couple years in PR, not research or anything. It was in student affairs, actually. And then from there, I got my master’s from Peabody College at Vanderbilt in International Education Policy. And then I said, “Oh, this research thing is really interesting.” I thought I would be done. Like many people with my master’s, but I just, the research bug, bit me is what people say. So I was like, I have to learn more. You know, I read much like so many people that I know. I read an article about critical race theory, and it just blew my mind open. And I was like, I have to learn more about this. And this is a really cool lens for understanding issues in society that I had kind of internally always felt was my own lens. But I didn’t have the, you know, the framework, the theoretical framework to articulate why I felt that way or why, like my experiences, why those experiences led me to believe what I believed about society and schools. So I like just Googled, like, critical race theory, graduate school. And, of course, UCLA was like the first school that popped up. And I just was looking at the faculty at UCLA, and I was like, faculty was like, mostly people of color. And I said, you know what? I’m going to UCLA, and I’m not applying anywhere else. So I was really just wanting to go there because I wanted to learn more about critical race theory and do this type of work. So that’s where I got my graduate degree. And then, during the pandemic, everything just kind of like shut down. I was finishing my dissertation around then. And I said, Lord, I don’t know what I’m going to do. There are no jobs. There’s nothing out there. Everybody’s just kind of hunkering down. Should I defend? Should I go to job market? And my advisor was like, you’re getting out of here. You need to go. You need to defend. So I defended, and I was very fortunate, and I got a job where I am currently on a tenure track faculty position at the University of Alabama. I’m in the College of Education in the Department of Ed Studies. And I teach research methods. I teach qualitative research, and that’s what I do now. And I love living in Alabama. I know people are always very like, what? Do you like it there? I love it here. I’m never leaving. So I always try to get people to come move here to me, all my friends. And yeah, so that’s where I’m at in terms of just personally and professionally. Let’s see. And then, you asked about my research interests. So, my background is in urban ed and qualitative research. And my research broadly looks at student identity and voice. I use intersectional feminism. And I really, at the heart of my research, I mean, I could go on and on about, you know, the different areas I look at, and I’m sure we can touch on them and talk about them more. But really, at the heart of my research is, I am very interested in learning more about how we can make schools caring and loving spaces for everyone. So, I first started off with students, and then I worked with educators. And I said schools are not loving places or warm places for them, either. And so, so yeah, so I’m just including everyone now and trying to kind of understand, you know, what a womanist ethic of care in practice and in schools looks like and also how we can ground those developments that the reforms or whatever you want to call it, the transformations in the experiences and the voices of the people who are actually in the schools, right? So, talking to students. Talking to educators, and just really learning more about their experiences and going from there. And that’s—those are my just broadly research interests, and happy again to talk more specifically about any of those.
Nadia Iftekhar 06:34
Well, thank you for sharing that! I mean, it you have such a unique background coming from Saipan, correct? And then going to Virginia, and then LA, and then Alabama. So you’ve kind of been all over, and then hearing about the evolution of your research interests over time would be an interesting segue, just because—remind me again, what your master’s was in?
Dr. Shena Sanchez 06:54
International education policy.
Nadia Iftekhar 06:57
Okay. So you came from a policy perspective, and then you’ve gone into research, qualitative research. And really, I mean, you’re thinking about reform. And I, you know, I’m just so curious now about how you transitioned and decided to do higher education. And then also, how your research interests have evolved over time through each phase of your journey?
Dr. Shena Sanchez 07:15
So, I quickly alluded to being in Student Affairs at Duke. So I, after I graduated from my undergrad—I graduated with a degree in English and a background in communications—I thought I wanted to be a journalist. I just loved, I just loved listening to the news. And I loved the way journalists talked. I loved the way that they wrote. And it just made sense to me. And I said, you know, I want to be a journalist. But then I wasn’t really sure about, you know, the actual grind of being a journalist. I’m the type of person and it’s not like a work-life balance. But I just know, like, I needed a lot of sleep. And I really like vacations. And I just, I just know the things that make me happy. And looking at the journalists sort of like lifestyle, it seemed like just, you were just like on a constant grind. And that just really, from a lifestyle perspective, did not appeal to me. So I pivoted a little bit, and I went into PR, which is what I did at Duke. And for a couple years, I worked in PR. I, you know, I enjoyed it somewhat, I was—it did not feel like the most fulfilling position for me. So, I started volunteering. In Durham, there was a refugee resettlement agency. I don’t know how I found out about them, but I just started volunteering, just trying to see, you know, what else is out there in the world? I think I was listening to a lot of news about, you know, the war in Iraq and like all this stuff, so I was like, just very curious about what was like, how was that unfolding here in the US. So there was a refugee resettlement agency that worked large population of Iraqi refugees who were, came to North Carolina who were living in the triangle, and from sort of spending time building community being with my friends from Iraq, and watching their little kids, like navigate school, watching my friends try to figure out school for their kids. And, you know, a lot of them who came with like very high degrees, like they were engineers and teachers, and they were highly educated, but they couldn’t get jobs here in the U.S., you know, for those are, it’s a whole different conversation. And so, you know, they were, you know, a lot of them had to take jobs at like, dry cleaning companies or large industrial chicken manuf-, industrial-like food, slaughtering houses and, and just navigating, like how to get their kids you know, into afterschool programs. These school services and it just like looked very difficult. I mean, even for me, I had a college degree, I was like, oh, I don’t know how to do this. I’m reading all this paperwork. I like don’t understand what’s happening. And I said, man, and it really helped me like find—I hate to be like find purpose in my life—but it just doing that kind of work, even though we would be up at like midnight, and I’m trying to like read all these like, the all the paperwork about food stamps, it just like gave me so much purpose and meaning that I didn’t find in my nine-to-five PR job, sitting in a really nice comfortable place at Duke. So I said, I think this is what I want to do. And it also helped me just kind of reflect on my own upbringing, as, you know, being this like immigrant to the U.S., but like, not really, because we live in a U.S. territory, but my mother is an immigrant, you know. And so, just thinking about our own immigrant backgrounds and how my parents, my father, did not have formal education. I think he stopped in, like, the third or fourth grade—my sister and I were talking about this not too long ago—to support his family. My mom, you know, has a high school degree. And it’s just like, it amazed me that they, together, were able to, you know, raise that many kids help us with our education. But I was still the only one who went to college, and I was the only one who, you know, got higher degrees. And so a lot of it was like, very personal, like seeing my friends go through very similar things and wanting the best for their kids. Now that you’re in America, you’re supposed to have all these opportunities, and like really wanting them to have those actual opportunities, but not knowing how to do that. And so I said, I’m gonna go get a master’s degree in something. And Google is my best friend. So I went on Google, and I was like, if I want to do XY and Z, I remember plugging this in, if I want to do XY and Z, what’s the best degree for me to get? And international education popped up because I, at the time, wanted to work with refugees and refugee communities. One of the best programs at the time was at Vanderbilt. And so I was like, well, you know if you’re gonna apply for something, you might as well apply for the best program. So if they’re alleging they’re the best … And so I applied, and I did that program. And like I mentioned to you, while I was in that program, I thought I would be done, then I thought I would be done, and then go and like, work with refugees or like, go do something with a refugee resettlement agency, and maybe work as like a, somebody who was coordinating educational services or something that’s like kind of where I was thinking. And then, just selfishly, again, I like read about critical race theory. And I was like, this is so exciting. It’s even so much more motivating than anything I had ever read in grad school. And I read it like my last semester of grad school. So I immediately was like, I think I need to, like, take a year off to really think about this, if I really want to get a Ph.D., because it seems like a really big commitment. So I took a year off, and just kind of hung around Nashville. And then I decided I wanted to go for it. And that’s really what helped me transition into where I am today was, was that, and I, you know, I’m still friends with a lot of my refugee friends. But obviously, I’m not doing that work, but I can’t do everything, everything you want to do in life, and but I still think about our times together. And I still think about that work and how important it is. And you know, there are students from refugee backgrounds, refugee families who go to or attend urban schools and live in, in cities that I’ve worked in, and I’ve been able to keep one foot in in community with them while I was in Nashville.
Nadia Iftekhar 13:05
Well, the common thread I see from your journalism interest all the way up until what, how you explained your Ph.D. experience is that you’re interested in people’s stories and different ways of looking at them and different perspectives. That’s fascinating. What was your dissertation topic on, if you don’t mind me asking?
Dr. Shena Sanchez 13:25
Yeah, my dissertation was on, you say, stories, but was on the stories, the experiences of girls of color in high school, in Title I high schools, who experienced two things: school punishment and being excluded from high-level courses. So, from honors, AP courses like that. And my study took place in five title one high schools, three in California, one in Tennessee, and one in New York. And yeah, and I traveled to these schools, and I conducted Sister Circle kitchen table talks. Those are focus group-type interviews. And these girls, we did, you know, between five to seven sessions, yeah. And I just got to know about 35 girls through the study and through their stories. And we also did art, they did some writings. So just all sorts of like multimodal ways of, you know, sharing one’s life. And that’s what my dissertation was about. And it was also about not just the experiences that they had with punishment, and this is kind of my research interest started off as like punishment-oriented, right? It’s like, I know that, like being a girl of color in the U.S., I also experienced punishment in schools and that sort of thing. And I know, this is something that’s happening, and it was, you know, a lot of the big sort of research that at the time when I was in grad school was around school punishment and the disproportionate punishment that students of color experience. But while I was like doing my research, I realized that they had so much more to say than just talking about harm and punishment and injustice that they were facing. Like they also wanted to talk about other things like their families and like the things that made them happy, the things in school that made coming to school worthwhile, because school in general was not like the best—they didn’t see it as the best place—but they were still coming to school. And there was a reason why. And they also wanted to talk about that. So, over the course of my dissertation, I piloted it at a school, I realized, like, oh, my questions need to sort of evolve and not just be so focused on punishment and harm, because that’s not all they want to talk about. They also want to talk about fun, joyful things, and I should incorporate that. And so they really helped me understand the importance of looking at generative and positive or strengths-oriented ways of seeing the world and how they see the world, because they don’t just see the world in this sort of negative way. And so, that goes back to sort of what I was saying about, you know, how can we make schools more caring, loving, joyful spaces? Because the students that I talked to definitely wanted that, and they were trying to create it for themselves.
Nadia Iftekhar 15:58
Right, so that, you know, that gives a lot of background, and I’m curious about how you kind of fell into the qualitative research world or how you discovered that as the direction that you wanted to go versus quantitative or other options? Could you tell me a little bit about that? And maybe we can define for our listeners what qualitative research means to you.
Dr. Shena Sanchez 16:18
Yeah, so qualitative research to me. I mean, you can Google the definition. But to me, it’s a research approach that, as you said, really centers the stories, experiences, perspectives, and feelings of the participants, right, and using those stories and those perspectives and experiences with the social context that they’re occurring in. So you really have to in qualitative research—I always say, it’s not enough to just tell stories, right? We’re not journalists; we’re not just like reporting the stories, but we’re contextualizing it for our readers. So, to be a qualitative researcher, you really have to be well-read in history, in current events, in politics, everything, right? Everything that, like sort of the stories of the people that you’re looking to study, that their stories touch. And so, so qualitative research is an approach where you use those stories to examine, right, a phenomena or something that’s occurring that you’re interested in. You know, quantitative research obviously does a similar thing. They use numbers, statistics, and things like that. So that’s to me what qualitative research is, and the shift for me occurred—so, when I was at Vandy, our training was heavily quantitative. I was sitting in my stats class, like, for four semesters doing, you know, running regressions, cleaning just oodles and oodles of numbers and data and spreadsheets. And for a while, I thought I thought, oh, this is fine. This is pretty cool. Like, I like plugging in the numbers and seeing all the predictive formulas and things like that. And then I went to UCLA, and it’s a very qual-heavy program—the one that I was in—and a lot of people had, were asking questions that were qualitative questions. And I thought, huh, that’s interesting. So they’re just looking, you know, well, not just, but they’re looking very specifically at four students, or, you know, a cohort of teachers. They don’t care about, is our end large enough to be powerful? They’re just, they think these four stories are powerful enough. And I thought that was just so mind-blowing. And again, I’m coming in fresh. I just had just read a bunch of articles on critical race theory, I still really didn’t even understand how you do that in research. So I said, let me try, you know, and my at the time, my advisor had us on a project that where we were doing quant and qual. He had me sort of like in this middle space where he was having me do quantitative analyses but also training me to be a qualitative researcher. And so, I designed my dissertation to be mixed methods. So, I designed it to have this quant component and a qual component. And when, I when I proposed it to my committee, they were like, so tell us why you’re doing the quant thing? And I said it makes sense. I like it, I guess? And they’re like, oh, we’re not, we’re not sure we’re convinced. Because you go through the quant stuff, and you’re just kind of like explaining it. And then you get to the qual part of your study, and you just light up, and it’s very evident that this is what you are actually passionate about. And, you know, they were like, do you not see that? And I was like, oh yeah, you all are kind of right. You know, because your dissertation, your head is in the books. It’s down, you’re trying to—you’re just trying to finish. So you, for me, I wasn’t really stopping and reflecting and assessing like what do I love to do. I was just like this is this is what I’m doing. And so that really speaks to the importance of having committee members who are really have your interest and are really observant and watchful and just pointing out which to you might not be very obvious. So they encouraged me to just drop the quant stuff, and they’re like, you know, why don’t you just do qual? And I was like, you just gave me permission to just do the qual thing. And I said, okay, and I mean, it wasn’t hard because I was like, yeah, that sounds good. I don’t—I’m not gonna do the quant stuff. And at the time, that decision wasn’t hard because they, after they pointed it out, it seemed obvious. And then, I had to do the qual study. And I was like, oh, my God, this is so much work. So we can talk about that more later. But it was so much work. And I don’t know if they knew that. I don’t know if they just didn’t say I have no idea. But I just remember being like, dang, is it too late to add the quant stuff because there’s traveling, this scheduling, this sort of schlepping across the country like this is a lot of work. And then I had so much data to clean and, but it was so worth it. I mean, it’s, it’s—I look back, and I wouldn’t, you know, I really wouldn’t change much from that experience because it really helped me grow. And it helped me have a study that I, at the end, was very, very satisfied with and happy about. That’s how I made that sort of transition and took the qual world fully. And I just was like, I owned it. I was like, I’m a qualitative researcher. Now. Yes, this is me, I’m claiming it.
Nadia Iftekhar 21:14
Fascinating. That’s, you know, you touched on kind of our next couple of questions because one of the things was quantitative data for kind of the newbie. When you’re thinking about the two, you think of it as kind of clean, you know, you’re working with numbers and things like that. Qualitative is a whole different animal. So, you recently spoke at a webinar of ours about data analysis of qualitative research. You know, I’m pulling from some things you taught us to have you explain them maybe further or if you could go over them briefly. You mentioned ontology and epistemology as they relate to data analysis. Could you give us a little bit of a refresher on that?
Dr. Shena Sanchez 21:49
Yeah, sure. I mean, to just go over it briefly. I’m not going to do it any justice going over it briefly. But we’re gonna try. So ontology is basically, the way I teach it is, ontology is what we know to be real and true. And I’m not talking about, like, the physical like, is this desk here? Or if a tree falls in the forest, and we don’t hear it does it actually make a sound? Not that. But it’s more about, like, human experiences, perspectives, knowledges, right? What we think is, what we think to be real and true around people’s perceptions and their experiences. So is there one objective reality, like, between you and me. So I always say, like, you know, there’s that saying that, you know, in an argument, there’s your side, their side, and then somewhere in between is the truth, right? So, that’s implying that there’s this somewhere, there’s this like, objective truth that is occurring that you and I are not privy to, or a part of necessarily based on our experiences. So, we’re both having our own realities. And then epistemology is sort of how we get to what we know to be real and true. So that’s made up of like, you know, your background, your culture, your upbringing, education, all sorts of things. And all the things that make you who you are really builds a foundation for your epistemological, right, perspectives and how you come to know what is real and true. And this is really, I think, really important for analysis. And I always encourage my students to really sit down with themselves, and I always say, you know, there’s no right or wrong answer for this. Like, there’s no sort of like, I need you to be one thing, right? In qualitative research, you have to be this. But qualitative research, in general, does lend itself a lot more to—when you look at the spectrum of, so the quant ontology—I should back up, ontology and epistemology—and then people also include axiology—so, like the things that we value and we deem of importance, they make up what’s called our research paradigm. And so traditionally, and historically, research paradigms are often positivist. And that’s this whole notion that like there’s this one truth, this objective truth. And that’s, you know, quantitative folks tend to be more positivist in their thinking, but also even some certain qualitative folks, because our schools and the way we’re educated teaches us that like, you know, there are these objective truths and these unchangeable truths and realities, universal truths, you know, people love that universal language, or that sort of thing. So that’s that the positivist side, and then when you sort of like go across the spectrum, then you have, you begin to have this like interpretivist constructivist paradigm, where, you know, your belief system is such that you believe that there are realities that everybody sort of has their own reality and truth, but also that we construct, we co-construct truth and reality, right—together—because we’re human, and we live, you know, in community with one another and so our realities become shared. Because of that, qualitative research and qualitative researchers tend to be more in the sort of interpretivist constructivist tradition, right? There are some folks, and I have students who are positivist, and then they try to do qual research, and they often run into certain issues or certain things because they’ll say things like, well, I expected them to answer it this way. And they didn’t. So now, I don’t know if I can answer my research question. And then I point out, well, when you say you expected, or like you had a hypothesis, or you were going in trying to prove something, that’s that positivist in you coming out, right? And so that’s you trying to prove something. Whereas in qualitative research, we’re not necessarily trying to prove a hypothesis we’re exploring. We’re deepening we’re understanding, right? And so that’s really important for analysis, because just kind of that example that I gave, if you’re coming from a certain paradigm that doesn’t align with your methodology, with how you’re approaching research, then you’re going to have this tension or you’re going to have this moment where you’re like, oh, shoot, this data doesn’t make sense, or my data is not answering my research question, right? And so I think, you know, especially with qualitative research, that’s why a lot of times, you’ll see qualitative studies written out, people will put out their positionality statement, right? There’s multiple reasons for that. But one of it is for you. It’s self-serving. It’s for you to examine your own positionality, your own subjectivities. So that when you go into analysis, you can do sort of like what’s called bracketing where you’re saying, okay, so this is where I’m coming from. This is my own set of beliefs about what’s happening and what’s real and what’s true. And this is what’s happening with my participants. And it’s not about making sure they match, but it’s about acknowledging that your experiences may be different or may be similar. And it helps us to have not objective work, but work that is trustworthy, right? Work that you can write up and say, this is why you, my reader, can trust that my findings are according to what my participants were saying and reporting. Sorry, I kind of went all over the place there. I think I was just kind of following one train of thought to another. But let me know if I should go back and clarify anything. But yeah, it’s that’s sort of why paradigms are important.
Nadia Iftekhar 27:03
That’s really interesting background to consider, especially itself and analyzing yourself and where you’re coming from the point about the positionality statement. Actually, it’s someone else mentioned that to me in an interview. And I feel like that’s, it’s so important for people to know the perspective of the researcher as well, especially as we’re going into data analysis now. I’m curious, and I’m going to ask you for basic definitions of terms that are probably much more deep than something you could give a basic definition of, I want to ask you about different types of qualitative data analysis, and what is what if someone’s brand new to it? What are some things that they should know when we’re, when we’re beginning the conversation about qualitative data analysis?
Dr. Shena Sanchez 27:42
There are so many types of data analysis, right? So you can just imagine, like quick Google Scholar search, and we’ll produce there’s thematic analysis, there’s discourse analysis, there’s all these analyses. And we talk more about that if you want. But I think for the purpose of our conversation, and sort of because we’re trying to be a little bit more broad about qualitative data, you know, as a methodologist, my answer is always it depends on what it is you’re trying to do. It depends on the goals of your research. It depends on your research question. I can’t recommend just outright like one type of data analysis because we would have to talk about, you know, what are the goals of your research? And you know, what are your questions? But what I can say is that they’re all great when you’re using them and they’re aligning with within the research design. But for folks starting out, I always say the simpler, the better. I have a lot of students who, you know, they’ll read, you know, we’ll do a bunch of readings in class on grounded theory or phenomenology. And they’ll say, yeah, I want to do a grounded theory for my study, because they read readings that were like, oh, this is cool. I want to do this. But I always say, you know, if you’re just a novice researcher, or you’re looking to do your dissertation, and you’re very limited access to qualitative courses, then sometimes just keeping it as a general qualitative study is sufficient, right? If you just say, I’m doing a qualitative study on the perspectives of X, Y, and Z or the experiences of X, Y, and Z, or even just a case study—and not to say just a case study, not saying that case study is easy—but case study really offers you a lot of sort of openness when it comes to the types of data that you can incorporate—case study boundedness is a huge thing. So, like, you can create your boundaries that I think is really helpful for guiding somebody who’s working on a dissertation because then you know, these are my boundaries, I’m staying within these boundaries, everything else outside I cannot care about because I have to finish this dissertation, and it’s methodologically asked of me to stay within the boundaries. So, those are my two recommendations for anybody who’s just starting out and like really wants to do qual study I did. Mine was a case study. It was a multi-site case study at the recommendation of my advisor who, you know, she’s an expert in case studies and said, you know, this is a good approach for you because it’ll give you a lot of that flexibility that you’re looking for, but also keep you methodologically aligned and making sure that you know, everything that you’re doing aligns with sort of the design of the study. So, in terms of analysis, again, it really depends on what you’re trying to do. And before you even get to the analytic phase, you want to think about what types of data am I collecting. Right? So, the most common data in qualitative research is interview data—transcript in the form of transcripts. So you can do one one-on-one interviews, focus group interviews, I did, like I said, focus group interviews, I’ve been on studies where we’ve done one-on-one interviews, and then you can also, and I think what’s really cool about qualitative research is, if you say this is data, and you justify that this is data, then this is data. And what I mean by that is, it really allows you to be very creative. So, for my study, I didn’t just want to do interviews because I knew, based on previous experience, interviewing high school students for another study, that sometimes there are going to be students who are just not going to want to talk to a stranger and who are not going to want to engage, even if I’ve been there. So many times in, they already know me. They’re just, like, not comfortable speaking out loud. And so I wanted to ensure that they had an opportunity to participate. And so I sort of thought about, like, what are some ways that I can get them to answer certain questions or to share certain experiences without having to share it out loud. And so for my study, I created activities that each session we would engage in, and they could also write, you know, alongside the activities. So I did things like the identity flower, which kind of helps them map out the different dimensions of their identities, and then also how they’re socially constructed by their educators or by people out in their communities. And so, so just these, like different mapping, creative, like diagramming activities really helped pull some of those stories and allow those students to share. And so I think the data, being thoughtful about the type of data you’re collecting is really going to help with down the road, the analysis, the analysis would be nothing without thoughtfully collected data.
Nadia Iftekhar 32:09
Right, that makes sense. So, the next question is about cleaning your data. You mentioned in your webinar earlier this year—and again, this is very much gonna be dependent on the type of data you collected, and what your study is, and what you’re looking at—but for someone who’s feeling overwhelmed with the thought of cleaning their data, let’s say they’ve collected a whole bunch of different types, what are some recommendations you might have? And then also, you, you kind of touched on this already, but things to keep in mind when you’re collecting your data so that you make cleaning your data easier?
Dr. Shena Sanchez 32:39
Yes, cleaning your data is very, very important in qualitative research. And I say that with, like, the biggest, biggest emphasis because it’s very easy, especially when you’re out in the field, to start losing track of data or to start being disorganized. And I say that because for the, I mean, even the California schools where I was living, when you’re traveling, you go to a school, and you’re conducting interviews, and then you’re hopping in your car, and then you’re going to the next school, or you’re just exhausted, there are so many things that can happen that can sort of compromise the data in that way. And in terms of the organization. So I am very, very big on as soon as you’re done collecting your data, you either get in your car, you go to a coffee shop, and you just download everything or upload everything to a cloud, a secure cloud. IRB often will say if you only use Box or you can only use whatever, and then just uploading that, having that backed up. And then obviously having it backed up onto like a locked, secure, like external hard drive or something. So, making sure that it’s located in both—like you have a backup and you have the actual copy. And then once you get home, and you’re transcribing, or you’ve sent it out for transcriptions, part of the cleaning process is reading and rereading the transcripts before you go into analysis. Right? So, ensuring that your transcripts are, in fact, matching up and are accurate to what the interview was actually set during the interview or focus groups. And then it seems so minimal, and like so sort of like trivial but organizing and labeling. So, at the end of my dissertation, I had, like, over 30-some focus groups interviews, and then I had over 450 pieces of just the art data that they did, so I had to scan them, and I had to label them. So just having a very good system for putting it in folders for naming, you know, the pseudonyms and stuff like that, like making sure that you know, who is actually who, and you have like sort of like the main file that has all that secured. So those are the things that those are steps that, again, sound so obvious, but sometimes when we’re traveling again or when we’re trying to read and do all the things that we’re doing can really fall to the wayside. Don’t let that fall to the wayside. Additionally, your own memos, your own journaling, like making sure that they are matching up with the school or the person or the date or whatever—however, you’re organizing it—making sure that your own the data that you produce, as a researcher, write your reflective memos or field notes, and that sort of thing are also organized accordingly. And that will really help set you up for making it so that in analysis, it’s easy for you to pull things, and you know where exactly where things are and where things were said. And I also just like to upload my transcripts directly onto my coding software so, whether it’s ATLAS.ti, Dedoose, InVivo, whatever you’re using, just having it there already because that’s another form of storage, right? So you have it stored in your hard drive, in the cloud, and then you have it stored in your coding software is, I think, really helpful. I also upload all of my art data onto that software, not just my transcripts.
Nadia Iftekhar 35:56
Okay, so making sure, really, that you’re organized from the get-go and, that you’ve backed it up, and that you’re consistent. So, organization is a key part here. I see that. Could you describe what an analytic memo is? And what its importance is?
Dr. Shena Sanchez 36:12
Yes, so memoing, in general, is a really big and important part of qualitative research. Because you’re doing so much talking, listening, writing, it’s easy to lose track of like what was said, and like the important things and important highlights that folks are saying, and sometimes when you’re in the moment, and you’re interviewing someone, you’re like, oh, I remember someone else said this, you’re having an analytical moment—whether or not you’re recognizing it, that is an analytical moment you’re having—write it down. So if you’re like, oh, this student is saying this. And then, a couple of days ago, I did an interview, and that student had something similar. Write that down, because that is the beginning of your analysis of whatever it is that whatever is happening there that you’re putting together, and then you’re like, oh, and then I read this article about this same topic. So those are what analytical memos are. It’s essentially any time that you’re having an analytical moment or anytime you’re doing analysis, and just writing down the main highlights and the main notes of what you took away, what you’re starting to identify as part of what the data is saying to you. And an analytical memo can look however you want it to look. So you can do bullet points, you can do more diagramming, you can do narrative form, you can make it an analytic journal, whatever it is—however, you best sort of retain and store data for yourself. But it’s really important that you engage in these memo writings. Because, again, they’re going to make analysis—I mean, it is part of the analysis—a lot smoother, but equally important, it’s also going to the trustworthiness of your research, right? Because you’re essentially, you’re having all these like different checkpoints where you’re seeing that, okay, this is a consistent theme that’s going across, or it’s being said on these multiple occasions, or even I’m having moments in real-time, where I’m recognizing this. And that’s how you sort of start build out the trustworthiness and the credibility of your work—is by being very detailed and deliberate about memo taking.
Nadia Iftekhar 38:15
The next question is kind of broad, and it kind of ties in as well about the role that our biases play in our data analysis qualitative research. What are some things to be mindful of? I know you mentioned the positionality statement. We just talked about our analytic memos. What are some other things to think about when we’re addressing or being conscious of our own biases in our research?
Dr. Shena Sanchez 38:35
So the first thing I always tell my students, is it out in the world, when we hear the word bias, it has a negative association or a negative connotation, like, oh, you’re biased, or, you know, I might be biased, but I think, blah, blah. But biases aren’t—in qualitative research—they’re not inherently bad or negative because they’re part of what makes us human. Right? They’re part of everything around us. Right? And you know that we call them subjectivities. It’s like the things that you come to the table with that is that makes you who you are. And so I appreciate how you said that and how you framed your question. Because you’re not saying minimizing our biases, because it’s, can you really do that? Like, can you really be less quote, unquote, bias, or less objective? Like you’re asking, you’re asking someone to be less human, in my opinion. And so what’s beautiful about qualitative research is that, for me, it’s a very human way to do research because you’re constantly encouraged to reflect on your own subjectivities on your own feelings on, your own thoughts, on your own perspectives, on your own actions and behaviors within the research space. Right? And so, because a huge part of it, too, is that your subjectivities really shape right, the way that you not only analyze the research but the types of questions you ask, how you design your work. And so, for me, I am, as you very quickly point out, I’m really big on stories. So, a lot of my qualitative research looks like me asking people to tell stories, me asking people to engage in any sort of storytelling with each other with me. I identify as an intersectional feminist; I identify as a womanist. So my research spaces look very much like Sister Circles look, like kitchen table talks, where we’re all coming in as often women of color girls of color, and we’re having conversations around what that experience looks like, right? And that’s me putting forth my own subjectivities and my own quote, unquote, biases right into the research and saying, This is how who I am is shaping the type of research that I’m pursuing, and shaping the types of questions I’m asking, and my relationship with not just the research, but my participants. Right? So sometimes my students will write positionality statements, and they’ll say they’ll put out their race and gender because that’s often what we associate with positionality. Right? It’s like your race, your gender, your class, but then they’re like, their research questions or their study has nothing to do with race, gender, or class, or they don’t mention that. And then I say, why did you share this information with me when it doesn’t appear anywhere in your research? Like, I need you to make a clear connection between who you are, the things that you believe, and the questions that you’re asking, and the research you’re pursuing. And so that’s really, I think, again, goes back to the whole how we make our work trustworthy, right to our reader, we tell them who we are. And we disclose things about us that are relevant to the type of work that we’re doing.
Nadia Iftekhar 41:37
If you have any resources that you’d recommend for someone who is learning more about data analysis for qualitative research, is there a direction you could point us in or any resources that come to mind?
Dr. Shena Sanchez 41:49
Yes, so I love, and this is what I’ve been recommending a lot lately is: the Venus Evans-Winters and Jennifer Esposito book. It came out a couple of years ago, but it’s called “Introduction to Intersectional Qualitative Research,” but it’s not just about intersectional qualitative research. They do a really nice job just going over what qualitative research is, the different types of qualitative research, the different methods you can engage. And then, of course, because I’m an intersectional feminist, they also do a really nice job explaining what that is and how you can do that type of work. So I love that book. That is the book I absolutely would recommend for anybody, even if you’re not looking to do intersectional research. I think it’s a really good book starting out. And then, I recently did a conference with the Ohio State QualLab. And so I’ve been learning a lot about them this like past year since they had invited me, and I recently did that workshop with them. And I really appreciate their website, their YouTube site. There’s so many really helpful videos, really helpful webinars. I mean, it’s just, it has a wealth of resources, and the people that they get to speak on the webinars and like lunch talks, I think, is what they’re called, or brown bags, are just really cool researchers doing really cool stuff. And you really get to see the range and the different ways that people engage qualitative research in their work. So those are my two sort of the go-twos lately that I’ve been tossing at people when they asked me.
Nadia Iftekhar 43:14
Perfect, I just want to make sure I got it down. Venus Evans-Winter and Jennifer Esposito “Introduction to Intersectional Qualitative Research,” is that right?
Dr. Shena Sanchez 43:21
Yes.
Nadia Iftekhar 43:22
And then the second one, could you, do you know the URL or the name of the website off the top of your head so I could just make sure?
Dr. Shena Sanchez 43:28
I don’t, but if you Google Ohio State University QualLab, and QualLab I believe is one word, and you, their website will come up, and you can Google it on YouTube—Google it on YouTube, that’s not a thing—put it on YouTube. And they have a YouTube channel that I love their YouTube channel. Like any time I’m thinking about something, I go there, and I just want to see if anybody has talked about it to see, you know, in addition to the articles I’m reading, if there’s anybody done a webinar on it, it’s really great. I mean, it’s just all things qualitative research. So, I geek out on it. Pretty much all the time.
Nadia Iftekhar 44:01
It seems like that’s a lot to explore for someone who’s interested. So thank you for that. And then, if listeners have any additional questions for you, what would be the best way to contact you?
Dr. Shena Sanchez 44:11
I’m not the best on Twitter. I’m really trying. Everybody’s giving me all my friends are giving me a hard time. They’re like, you know, you’re still a millennial, right? You need to do better on Twitter, but you can find me on Twitter. It’s at Shenasan, s-h-e-n-a, San s-a -n. But also even email me, shena dot sanchez at ua dot edu. I’m happy to answer any questions or connect with folks who are interested in doing qualitative research or just want to learn more.
Nadia Iftekhar 44:35
Awesome. Thank you so much, Dr. Sanchez, for your time and for sharing your wisdom with us and a little bit of your story. I appreciate it.
Dr. Shena Sanchez 44:42
Thank you for this time. This was really wonderful and just lovely to talk to you and get to talk about qual research. Thanks for the invite.
Dr. Kelly Torres 44:52
Thank you for listening to this edition of Ed Tech Hour. I’m Dr. Kelly Torres, the department chair of the Educational Psychology and Technology Program at The Chicago School. This podcast was completed through the support of our dedicated faculty, staff, and students. To learn more about the Educational Psychology and Technology program or if you’re interested in being on the Ed Tech Hour podcast, please reach out to me at [email protected].